NIGERIAN IMPACT INTERVIEW
The Center for Anti-Corruption
and Open Leadership has appraised President Muhamadu Buhari administration as
the anti-Corruption regime. The CACOL Chairman said this in an interview conducted
by the Publisher of an online newspaper “Nigerian Impact”, Mr Clifford Ejeanavi
on Monday while discussing the present administration of the government in
power.
Can you introduce yourself, sir?
My name is Debo Adeniran, I am
the Executive Chairman of Center for Anti-Corruption and Open Leadership (CACOL)
Thank you very much, sir, for
giving us the opportunity to talk with you.
We want to look at what is actually going on in Nigeria today, in your
own view, do you think we are moving forward or we are going backwards
considering lack of development for education, considering a negative device
that is happening today, do you think we are still on the right side?
Thank you very much, is like you
have kind of compile some of the atrocity or some of the inadequacies of the
government but I will not agree with you that corruption is still as rampant,
the truth is that a problem that was created several years earlier cannot be
stopped overnight, there is no country that has been able to solve corruption
overnight. Considering the fact that there are different phase of the opinion
of what constitutes corruption, there are type, kind, and varieties of
corruption, there is certain confusion to what actually should be taken as
ground corruption. Remember the last government, the former president Goodluck
Jonathan said that stealing cannot be classified as corruption, then wonder
what be called corruption. He wouldn’t have fought to steal as a serious crime
against the citizen. So, that may be the reason why corruption was not
adequately fought during that administrative.
But remember that corruption has
been there as far back as when Nigeria was constituted in 1940 because Nigeria
is a product of corruption, nobody actually agreed on any referendum or
flipside that we wanted an amalgamation of Nigeria. And Lord Lugard didn’t
consult anybody before he gave us the name Nigeria, he only consulted his
girlfriend, so these are elements of corruption that have gone into the
creation of Nigeria.
At CACOL, we defined corruption
as any act of dishonesty, now any action is taken that one will not want it to
be exposed to the law because it is contradictory to the provision of the eastern
law classified as corruption. Now to fight corruption in Nigeria is like to
dismantle Nigeria and make an attempt to extract all of those things that have
been put into the making of Nigeria act of dishonesty. And that means that the
very name of Nigeria will be removed, then all of those who have participated
in one way or the other in the governing of Nigeria will also be the tyre for
corruption. Through planning and executions are corruptions because you don’t
govern people by the force that is enslavement. It means that everybody that has
participated or contributed towards the planning and executions are a corrupt
element. They have but engage through political corruption and they deserve to
be made to pay the price because that is what the law provides. Those civilian that serve during the military
era are beneficiary of corruption, they are supposed to be a tribe and punish
for that level of corruption, and then the military government didn’t give
account to the populace, which means that a lot of things could have gone wrong
during the military regime. They are books to check what could have gone wrong
during the military regime and everybody that is finding wanted in the auditing
process should be made to face the wrath of the law. Now let’s fast forward to
the Buhari administration, people see him as that magician who will extract
corruption from our body policy, is not going to happen.it didn’t happen in
Singapore, it took them several years before he could bring Singapore to the
level which he finds himself now. Several other countries didn’t do it
overnight. Even Ghana which is our west African country didn’t do it overnight
Rollins didn’t just jump on the platform and started killing people, he has to
identify those that deserve to die, rounded them up and give them the justice
that he believes they deserve.
Buhari military regime was acclaimed to be the
one that introduces what against indiscipline in Nigeria. Of course, everybody
agreed that there were lots of discipline when he was in government even when those
disciplines have to be enforced by the military jacket. They have to beat
people, queue at the bus stop, stop open defecation that was when the essential
commodity has to be controlled, Sold at control prices with the view of making
it difficult for anybody to exploit the witness of the poor, the vulnerability
of the poor to further enrich the rich. But lots of people who benefitted from
the act of indiscipline, the act of corruption didn’t like him; eventually, the
counter poll was organized and was thrown out of power before he was able to
consolidate.
That was the record and
background upon which people spell the present president when he started
contesting. Of course, you don’t forget those who locked out during his
military regime as a result of the fraudulent activity and so on wouldn’t want
him to become the president of Nigeria. But lots of them actually fought
vigorously against his emergence as the president of Nigeria. President Buhari
is the candidate of the Nigeria poor, the majority of the Nigeria population.
It’s on the back of the Nigeria poor that he road to the presidency.
If you remember during his second
time campaign he embark more the Nigeria poor and he told the rich that we are
going to have a harder time, and he was going to fight corruption the way he
has never fought it before, and he also told the people in the government
sector not to spend government money for campaigning for him. That is a way of
exceeding confidence, he didn’t ride on the back of the rich to rain
prominence, he believes that those that are going to vote for him are the
people who do not have access to government money, that why could have that
confidence to say that nobody should use government money to campaign for him.
While some other candidate says that they are going to tell the commanding high
commissioning of Nigeria to their friends.
Its seems you are 100% in support of President Buhari administration
It’s not that he has performed
100% correctly in the fight against corruption, but we see him as that one hard
man in the city of the blind that has to be the king. I wanted to do a comparative
analysis with his co-contestant when he was campaigning, he didn’t spend so
much the way people will think that contestant should spend money, so the little
he has been able to do we have to bank on the campaign promise that he was
going to fight corruption.
When we look at the APC political
party today we still have some people like the Jagaban who are ready to put in
their money
Well, I don’t know, it is what
that has been done that could have been treated to have been done. Nobody been
able to come out with the fact and figure of how much they have collected from
Jagaban or whoever, what we believe is that the money that was used to for the
Buhari campaign should have come from support group constituted by those who
supported him that are yet to be identified as individual or corporate entity.
Is CACOL part of those who supported him?
No, we didn’t participate in the
electoral process, but we supported any acorn that is genuinely geared towards
fighting corruption in Nigeria, and we believe that among those who have governed
us before especially during this first republic we believe that the person
government has fought corruption different from the way the predecessor fought
it and likely to work. I will tell you why I think so, all the safeguard that
is the legal instrument that makes corruption crime difficult to commit have
been operationalized by the current administration even when those instruments
are already there before the emergence of the administration one of it is;
The principle of treasury single
account, it has always been there the previous government couldn’t monster
adequate political will to operationalize it but the present administration has
done it, and they did it well making it difficult for government official to
open account on behalf of NBO without the knowledge of federation account so much
money flow into the hand of those who open such account. That has been a block
to the very large extent, the second one is the
BVN if anybody accumulates illicit fund, he
will not have the opportunity of enjoying it or launder it through financial
institution because CFA will the account that you have and how much you have in
them. The owner could be called to account for the property of fraud to
resources and that has been made difficult. Then beyond those two, we have the
(ACTU) Anti-Corruption and transparency unit that is residing with (ICPC) that
means that all procurement will have to pass through (ICPC) through (ACTU). So
procurement will be scrutinized before it is done, money release will also
follow to ensure value for money.
(NFIU) which is now (NFIE) that have been
taken from EFCC to the central bank that every transaction from any financial
institution ranging from 1m by individual and 5m by an entity will have to be
recorded. We also have (SCUAML) special control unit against money laundering
it is also residing with the EFCC any NGO civil society organization will have
to register with (SCUAML) any transaction they are making ranging from 1m by
individual and 5m by entity or Organization will pass through (SCUAML). That makes it difficult for people to quickly
notice corruption; it is also difficult for them to launder the money.
***There is this very instrument that has been suspended some years
back in national code of corporate governors, that code I’m happy to have a
copy of it for the private and public entities, while he suspended that code we
still don’t understand up till now but that is an instrument to probe
corruption
Well, the present instrument has
effectively replaced the code of conduct of National code of corporate Governors
because in the corporate governors they have to check the procurement before it
is done. And when you remember that there is this bureau policy procurement all
of this is becoming necessary because that code we are talking about seems to
be cumbersome. But in a situation whereby directly whatever that is going in
the financial institution would be recorded and sent directly to the
anti-corruption agency or financial regulatory agency like (CBN). Part of the
new instrument is the financial regulatory agency commission like (FRCN) which
also regulates the inflow and outflow of hard currency and local currency. All
of this makes corruption difficult to commit, remember what happened at the
Kaduna airport, Falomo Shopping Complex etc. People can no longer keep the
money, take it to a financial institution this is the reason why they abandoned
such money. Also, there are several assets that they are owner are disowning
them, the reason is because of this entire instrument that is being put in
place. There is serious political will that the present administration has been
able to monster, this has given the anti-corruption agencies the go-ahead to do
their work without any pestilence. That is the reason why we believe that he is
the right option. Let take a look at the new entrance, they are criticizing
corruption, because they don’t have opportunity to be involved in the act, and
not a direct beneficiary of corruption if they have been the direct beneficiary
of corruption they might not have to criticize corruption the way they are
doing it.
There are some of the contestants
simply utilizing the opportunity provided by several criticism eg “Not too
young to rule”. Many of them couldn’t follow through because they didn’t have adequate
plan to contest the election and that is why they didn’t monster adequate
supporter all over, they didn’t even have good structure, there structure only
exist on the internet. If you look at the way APC won in 2015, you will know
that people desire thing. They are looking for the pro-poor person who is
closer to them, among the presidential contestant in 2015, they see the current
president as someone who is trusted, and who can grant them their desire. This
may be the reason why we support the fight against corruption the way it is
been going on.
Let’s not forget, it is during
this administration that the former governors who had cases about 11 to 12
years after service were prosecuted and proper punishment was filed against
them. Despite all of this, people criticized that there were some persons in
his cabinet who were also corrupt. Of course, there is no way any government
can run in a corrupted riddled society like ours without having some of those
who supposed to be on trials in that government, you can’t trial everybody at
the same time. This is a case of the political game plan, because Nigeria
constitution didn’t allow individual candidate, and the constitution has made
it compulsory for any administration to have his minister from all of the states
in the federation.
Basically we need to look at the
one that can still be tolerated for some time, that does not mean that they
can’t still face trial at the fullness of time, look at what happened to Kemi
Adeosun, she was made to resign when they discovered that NYSC certificate was
forged, also Adebayo Shittu, he was not allowed to contest for election. It is
only in this administration that we have seen such thing, it could have been
covered, in fact, we won’t even know that they have a fake certificate and all
of those things. Now it is because of openness and disinterest of the
administration of how prosecutions go. That gives us confidence in the
administration of criminal justice will be awesome if we allow this present
government to continue to implement his plans.
*** I want to quickly draw your attention to the recent report by Forbes
who raised our president son Yusuf as the first richest child of a city
president with the net wealth of 3.6billion dollars. Is this corruption? As we
know he has no job and he’s not working anywhere.
How do you know that he’s not
working anywhere, I hope you read the Forbes report yourself, and I’m not sure
it is our president son is been referred to.
*** if he’s the one, don’t you think it’s worth investigating
Of course, it is not now that you
have to face the press before the investigation commence, because if the
administration goes to the media and say we want to investigate this issue they
will say that investigation is been done on the media. Nevertheless, they have
to come up with findings. As an investigative journalist you don’t have to tell
the presidency to investigate himself, nor the government, you should have a concrete
fact and evidence to it.
*** Unfortunately for us sir, we are unable to break through, even the
freedom of information bill we are unable to use it effectively, what I’m
actually asking for is, does it really worth investigating?
It doesn’t worth it, because
there is a lot of fake news that is flying around, how many of these fake news
does the government have time to investigate. There are lots of corruption
crimes being committed daily and everywhere. Insurgency crime, we cannot leave
such crime and be focusing on the bear parlour gossip. Basically maybe that
those who supposed to carry out an investigation on such crime are overwhelmed
by more important investigation they are conducting, it is not the static band
it can be conducted at any time. Any that is why I said this concerning those who
feel strongly about it, because all of this things are gossip, supposing it was
actually real, all I will do is I didn’t get it written. Is there any money missing in government, Does
this money traced into the account of the president son? This is some of the
things that an investigator would carry out. Actually, I don’t believe that is
the truth, they only want to waste nice time on it.
When we are talking about
security, insurgency, terrorism is not what has been conquered completely
anywhere. we still have pocket of terrorism here and there, the Boko Haram is
no longer targeting hard places they target soft spot like churches, mosques,
market places, and it is difficult to identify who is a member of Boko haram,
so no matter how somebody tried, to identify which Army they belong, you cannot
continue raking market in search of this people, otherwise, a lot of innocent
souls would be involved.
*** Based on what you just said now, that if they cannot identify them,
last week the government is considering of giving them a working sum of 100 billion
naira, so who do we give this money to?
Anyway let me disclose my thought
on that, we can attribute some of this successful bombing of such tragedy to failure
of intelligence. So if the intelligence has been perfect, it would have been
drastically reduced, in fact, it would have been a nip in the bud before they
carry out the assignment. However, Nigeria has been known as the home state of
corruption. So all of this, even the intelligence agency, the secret agencies
could have been bribed. They would have their own anger against the system
which they want to unleash by being on the side of the terrorist until Nigeria
is clean.
When you now talk about Boko
haram element people talked about it that Boko haram should be given amnesty
the way Niger-Delta was given amnesty. Of course, the Government has not appeased
with that request. I’m not sure that Boko haram has been given 100 billion
naira because I know that the 100 billion naira cannot mean much to the said
Boko haram. They cannot bribe and indoctrinated pest into submission, they can
only be converted. Everybody should be integrated into the situwestial programs
of the Government, the investigation should be carryout to know what the Boko
haram element want. They should look into how to breach the gap between the
rich and the poor, also to educate the uneducated; the government should make
education generally acceptable to anyone who needs it. Also, effort should be
made in the aspect of job creation.
Someone said that when there is
cold, don’t think about sex, don’t think about tea, think about those who
doesn’t have house to place their head, think about those that are homeless,
you see some people who have nothing, while there are some who has too much
than they need that is why we have a reckless society.
***Election have come and gone, even though we still have some
challenges at the tribunal let look at the main election that will be in 2023
what type of Nigeria will you want between now and then?
Ordinary if I am to go by my own conclusion,
the minimum would have been on welfarist Nigeria where education, all the
socialist sector are made cheap for the people, in terms of education,
healthcare, good road, potable water, food, as a matter of that, right to food
should be entrenched in our constitution, because all of these essential
services are very important to people, and they should be made free. Anybody
who cheats in the exam should repeat the class instead of taking to the prison.
In a nutshell, any offender should face the consequence of their offences. Also,
anybody who involves in election manipulation will be ban from contesting
ranging from five years to ten years. We also recommended for corruption
official any cases should face the wrath of the offence by staying behind the
wall with hard work so that it will serve as a lesson to other who wants to go
that way. We don’t agree on the death penalty, in CACOL we believe that people
can change, and if they wanted to change, because of their offence which they
have committed, they can change behind the wall, serve diligently, and teach
good children to see that they contributed to the national economy.
Let’s everything be justiciable,
let us have our right, and let the offenders be punished accordingly. Then we
want the president who will not be scared of his own people but will be
approachable. Also, all the Ministers should work with the people, the budget
should not be done on behalf of the people, should be done with the people,
there should be the least assessment during budget write up where people will
contribute into what they want in their community. This should be done by their
Legislatures.
The legislature should go back to
their constituency, to carry out the needs assessment they will now submit this
to the executive and ensure it goes into the budget. The question of budget
padding will no longer come up, the question of constituency project will no
longer come up, and everything will have been completed into the budget. All of
this will make Nigeria have that sense of belonging and they will feel the new
leave of life and that will make a better place for all.
Nobody will want to steal from
nobody because they know that everybody earns his own living through honest
leave, the reason why Bigande see crime persist in Nigeria is as a result of
the unleashing anger of poverty from the rich, they believe that everybody that
is riding a car could have stolen one in one way or the other to get one, or
anybody that is spending lavishly could have stolen the money knowing that they
also work for the money, but they are not earning enough. Basically, we have a
better more people to society than the way we are going to now.
*** Does CACOL support restructuring?
The restructuring has been
differently defined, we at CACOL don’t think political restructuring is our
problem, we think moral hammering will have to introduce ethical conduct into
our daily dealing and that could be thought at the level of code. When you talk
about political structure of Nigeria, that is not our problem, Nigeria poor
don’t know that someone is from anywhere, they believe that they belong to the
same class, the same thing with the Nigeria rich, the middle class have been
eliminated, so if you restructure and we have the Oduduwa state for the Yoruba
and Biafra for the Igbos and the Arewa for the Hausa, they will soon be oppress
before we see the oppressed, the rich will still exploit the vulnerability of
the poor, that restructure will still not work, what will work is there should
be national ideology where there will be upper feeling on how many individuals
can possess before he gives the remaining to the state, before that can happen,
if you have too much, and you will not be able to use it before you forfeit it
to the state. A political party should not be registered on symbolism. Nigeria should
refocus on what will constitute everybody coexistence. Thank you.